Another file

Sergej,

je li ovo znači da je ona od kraljevske kuće? Ja sam malo tražio ali nigdje ne vidjeh Jovana (John) Obrenovića. Bio je Jovan ali to nije ovaj koji se pominje u krštenici. Taj Jovan je brat Miloša Obrenovića i umro je 1850 godine. Meni se čini da je ovaj Jovan(John) dodao uz svoje prezime i prezime Obrenović, a Marija je izgleda od loze Obrenovića. Meč‘utim ni tu ne nač‘oh Mariju u spisima o Obrenovićima. Postoji Marija iz Rumunjske udana za jednog od Obrenovića, ali je živila znatno prije ove.
Dakle, ovo treba dati nekome ko poznaje stvar. Svakako me interesira.

Brane,

Mislim da jeste ali nisam sto posto siguran. Imam uskoro vise podaci. http://www.rodoslovlje.com/phorum/read.php?13,4132

Hi Sergei,

I am trying to follow your conversation using an on-line translation tool, but as you can see below, it is not very good. Can you please enlighten me? To my knowledge, there is no Roumainian lineage...but again, the translation is terrible and the nuance of the message is not coming through properly.

Thank you so much,
Christina

"had this means to be she with kraljevske kuće? Myself little the applicant but nowhere do not fan-light Jovana ( john Obrenovića. Been had Jovan but it is not this that yourself slider from birth certificate. That Jovan had brother Miloš Obrenovića plus umro had 1850 age. Me yourself spell to be this JovanJohn () adds beside its surname plus surname Obrenović , and Marija had looks like with loze Obrenovića. However nor here do not nač‘oh Marija from source on Obrenovićima. Durable Marija forth Romania married after jednog with Obrenovića , but had reside extensively leading this. Accordingly , this is required endow some who acquaintance thing. Definitely me interested"

Hi - also, I found a slip of paper that Mom had written the name of an aunt or great aunt: Catherine Orlov (orlovic). There are Russian (St-Petersburg) and Caucasian ancestors, on one side or the other,in addition to Serb.

Thank you
Christina

Hi Sergei,

Would it be worth looking at birth announcements in Politika through the Digital Online Library of Serbia. All the issues are there from 1904-1941. Since my Mom was born March 15 1928, I would assume a Birth announcement would be in the March 16 or 17 edition. It is, unfortunately for me in Serbian, but here is the link if you want to take a peek: http://www.digital.nbs.bg.ac.yu/eng/novine.php.

Christina

Hi,

Could you attach that scan with those names. Anything would help as I am trying to assertain which line we should look into. I am waiting for a reply from my contact in the SOC so we'll have to wait for that one. You should download this programm to make yourself a family tree: Personal Ancestral File The software is free and you can disable the LDS features on it. Yes it would be worth looking through the newspapers for sure. The only problem is that it is not in a format that is searchable so you would have to look per page :-s

Brane was basically asking which line this is because he didnt hear from it before and he was interested in it. I hope to get more info this weekend for you. Please start already with creating the pedigree and I will open tonight the My Rodoslov section for you.

Hello,

here is some general information in english about Obrenovic from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obrenovi%C4%87_family_tree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Obrenovi%C4%87

There is so many Marijas in tree and it would be esier if we know name of the Marija´s father. It is also interesthing that your mother have aunt with surname Orlovic. Orlovics(Martinovici) are old and heroic family from Kosovo Battle and also latter, and Obrenovic familly are one of the descendant familly form Orlovic familly.
I think that your mother was descendant from Obrenovic royal familly and it is only question of time when we shall find out full informations.

Sergei, Brane...thank you!

The newspapers of the day are very short by our standards....between 15 and 20 pages. I can make out certain sections and they seem to have a classified section, but it is difficult for me, not reading the language to really determine birth or death announcements, or even if that would be part of the culture of the day.

As for my grandmother, I will ask my sister, as she is 9 years older than me and had the benefit of meeting our grandmother. She came to Canada and stayed with us 9 months, but before I was born.

My mother said her father came from a very large family: 10 or 11 siblings and often talked about an Uncle Daco (sorry for the spelling). Uncle Daco was also supposed to be attached to Swiss banks (Credit Swiss?).

One other piece of information: my sister and a very close family friend both mention a "Council" or "Brotherhood" of 12. Have you ever heard of anything like this? Apparently this council is or was made up of family members and meant to manage affairs, our inheritance and keep a watchful eye over us in terms of security. I remember often seeing these "discreet" black cars parked across from our home, outside my school and, particularly in 1970 when we experienced the FLQ Crisis in Quebec.It is this Uncle Daco who is or was at the head of this Council or Brotherhood. Mom always told us we were protected by Cossacks. Daco must be an abbreviation for his name, but I do not know what that would be...do you?.

Near the end of her life, my Mom could no longer speak and was writing messages on slips of paper in the hospital: Catherine Orlov in particular, over and over again, as well as her own name and her father's, her mother's. It was as if she was trying so hard to make sure we knew who she was. Her writing though is very difficult to decipher and on so many little slips of paper, in English, Serb and Greek. The injuries to her head she suffered in her youth in Communist prison left her with a slow and progressive neurological disorder: as the brain cells died, messages to her body to perform certain basic functions such as speaking, swallowing and writing became very difficult. So ironic....

This is what I can tell you for now and my sister is remembering more and more as we discuss and reach back in our own past regarding things Mom told and taught us.
I hope this is helpful.

Sergei, what about the pic of the ring with the family crest or emblem. Could that be helpful?

I will let you know more as soon as I find out.

Thank you both for everything!
Best,
Christina

I've re-attached the ring pics in case it is helpful. My sister told mme that when our Grandmother came to Canada, she took this ring off her finger and placed it on my sister Barbara's hand. She said it was passed down from her mother and hers before that....

Christina

Hello again,

One more thing I thought of: family Patron Saints. We have 3 - from Mom and my Dad's side:

St. Nicholas
St. George
St. Barbara

I definitely know Nicholas is Mom's family patron and I think St. George. The feast of St. Nicholas was a very important day in our home. St. Barbara is from Dad's family in Greece. Since these saints remain from generation to generation, it may be useful info as well.

Christina

Obrenovic´s Family Patron Saint was Saint Nicholas, but they changed their slava and start to praise Saint Jevstatije. I am not sure that all part of Obrenovic family praising Saint Jevstatije. I believe that other part of family never stopped praising Saint Nicholas because it is old slava which is heritage from Orlovic family.

Hello Sergei and Brane,

I have just spoken with Barbara and she does not recall the names of Mom's mother's parents.

Thoughts: The Church in Kalemegen where she was baptized must be the best resource to determine her parents family: their marriage and therefore the names of their parents, their baptism, and therefore their parents. It's been around for a long time!

Also: Dilja and Caucas (Caucasus) must be a good clue as well as to her father's origins. I'm pretty sure their is a Georgian connection and Mom spoke with Barbara of the "Emerald Throne" and her Russian/Caucasion roots.

As for her grandparents, all we remember is that they were shot by the Communists, along with 11 of her cousins.

Correction regarding patron saints: Saint Barbara is also from my mother's family. Dad said she had an old byzantine portrait of her when they met in Greece. She had brought it with her along with St. Nicholas to Greece.

I will try to think of more....

Christina

Hi Brane,

St. Nicholas was very dear to Mom. I have never heard of St. Jevstatije...do you know if there is an English translation for the name?

I also had thought of posting her obituary in the Belgrade newspaper. Someone must come forward and remember her!!

Thank you!
Christina