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Maria Ghetaldi-Gondola (Getaldic-Gundulic)

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(@gundulic)
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Hi; i´m in reaserch of my family mother´s line, my greatgrandfather was a son of Maria Ghetaldi-Gondola, born in Ragusa/Dubrovnik 10.9.1837, she married first with Anton Lunda (k.k), in Ragusa 1855, she divorce in c.1872, i `m looking the date and place of death, she was daugther of Sigismondo Ghetaldi-Gondola and Malvina de Bosdari, and sister of Francesco(Frano) Ghetaldi-Gondola (1833-1899) and Giovanni (Ivan) Ghetaldi-Gondola (1835-1891), if any person have info about her please let me know and know about the Gondola-Gundulic family and yours genealogy too!!

 
Posted : 20/08/2007 12:56 pm
Sergej
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Hi,

Could you please tell me where you did research thus far? Also if you can attach a PAF or Gedcome file.

Regards,
Sergej

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 7:30 am
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Hi Sergei: the reaserch take different source: Archiv in Dubrovnik, Militar Austrian records, Italian records (city of Merano), personal source (Caboga family, Ghetaldi family), nobility archiv (Gotha).etc
The archiv lost after the fall of Austrian Empire in 1918.

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 12:00 pm
Sergej
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Juan,

Could you please attach a pedigree file and tell me where you exactly ran into trouble. Did you go in person to Dubrovnik or did you pay someone for it?

So you are stuck at 1918 and can't go further back into time I presume?

Regards,
Sergej

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 1:02 pm
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Hi Sergej: i not have a pedigree file, i put the genealogical info into a Wikimedia library, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Gondola, i make all the info about the nobility of Ragusa.

My reaserch is into a trouble with the fall of tha Austrian Empire (1918), Maria Ghetaldi-Gondola not have the date and place of death, if you see the wikimedia page, exist others than can not obtain the same info.

I`m not go in person Dubrovnik, was very difficult reaserch the info!, exist in Dubrovnik 5 box, who contain personal and legal info about the Gondola-Gundulic family, since 1300 until 1921.

best regards!
if you can obtain more info will be very succesfull!

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 2:12 pm
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Sergej: i copy this old yugoslav article about the Gundulic family, i`m not can translate the info:

Quote wrote:
Nekoji storoji dubrovacki pisci iz polovine XIX v. a prije toga u XVIII v. historicar Nijemac Kristijan Eugel tvrdili su, pogrjesno, ne znamo na osnovu cega, da je najposijedni Gundulic bio veoma zasluzni crkveni dostojanstvenik biskup Josip Frano Gundulic (Góndola)? Bio je sin Frana Siskova Gundulica i majke ne- Dubrovkinje ( cije nam je porodicno prezime nepoznato). Rogjen u Becu 1711 g. bio je do svoje smrti 5.III.1774 g. zupnik u Probstdorfu (Blizu Beca); nakon sto je bio posvecen za biskupa, imenovan je bio od Sv.Stolice apostolskim vikarom per septemtriomem i naslovnim biskupom od Tempe; k tome je bio i director i profesor becke bogoslovne fakultati.--- Bio je jedan od posijednjih muskih potomaka porodice Gundulica i bas po ocu praunik slavnog nam pjesnika “Osmanide”.

Un ovaj crkveni dostojanstvenik Josip Frano Gundulic nije bio najposijednji Gundulic- to je bio Sisko Dominio Gundulic, onom biskupu prvobratuced. Otac najposljednjeg Gundulica Sisko matej Gundulic, ozenjen Ursulom Frana Getaldica, imao je 4 sina, od kojih: najstarijega Siska Domenika, prije pomenutoga, te jos Frana, Frana i Incacija, Dziva Frana, i dvije kcerli: Katu, udatu, o kojoj ce ovdje biti govora, i Ursula, neudatu. Sisko Dominik Gundulic rodio se u Duvrovniku 6 februara g. 1712, ozenio se Franom Bunicevom 20 januara g. 1754. Pjesniku Osmanide bio je po ocu praunuk (Na temelju Matica zupnog ureda gra Dubrovnika iz XVII i XVIII v.). Ovdje pomenuta Kata, kci Siska Mateja i Ursule Getaldic 20 novembra 1740 god. Sisko Dominik Gundulic nije u svome braku imao potomaka, dok je sestra mu udata Getaldic imala sinove: Frana Augustina, rogjenog 30.XII.1743 g., o kome ce ovdje biti dalje govora, te Siska Dominika, i kceri: Mariju, Ursulu i Mariju Ursulu. Siska Dominika Gundulica dopala je i njega viseputa koja od mnogih sluzaba plemickih u republici, a vrsio je i mnoge druge poslove, sto ih njegov zavicaj davase svojim plemicima. Od carskog Beca dobi on velike pocasti i naslove: carskog komornika (cambelana( carskog dvornika. On se je ovim pocasnim naslovima uvelike ponosio te je uz svoje ime , i uz pocasni naslov grofa (comes) svetog rimskog carstva, uvijek vise manje potpuno ih isticao. Tako kad je koji put prisistvovao u svojstvu krsnoga kuma crkvenom obredu pri krstenju kojeg plemickog djeteta, pa kad je god. 1785 postavio nad onim grobom u kapeli Gundulica u sakristiji Male Brace novi nadgrobni natpis.

Ivan GundulićEvo nas i sa odgovorom na vazno pitanje, tko je bio sahranjen u obiteljoskok grobnici Gundulica u kapeli Trojice (Sv.Trojstva). O tome srecom imamo jesnih biljezaka u pomenutim katalozima registrima ukopa u dubrovakhoj franjevackoj Crkvi. Tu su u prvom od tih kataloga registara zabiljezeni ovi clanovi porodice Gundulica: 1) XII Marinko Gundulic, Isusovac, sahranjen 1.XII.1647 g. In Sacrestia co li suoi parenti. Bio je glasoviti osnovala isisovackog kolegija u Dubrovniku; 2) Dzivo Marina Gundulic, sahranjen 14.VIII g. 1650, in sacrestia. To je bio glasoviti kronista; sin Marina Gundulic i Vice Tudisevic; 3) Marina Gundulic sin Dziva Marinova Gundulic, sahranjen 23. V g. 1659, in sacrestia nel suo sepolcro; 4) Dzivo Marina Gundulic, sahranjen 14.VIII g. 1661, in sacrestia; 5) Don Nikola Dziva Gundulic, sahranjen 15.II g. 1665, in sacrestia nel sepolcro di Gondola; 6) Dom Sebastijan Gundulic, sahranjen 8.II g. 1666 nel sua Capella; 7) Marin, sin Dziva Marinova Gundulic, sahranjen 11.V. g. 1666 in sacristia; 8)Dom Sebastijan Gundulic, sahranjen 29.V.g. 1684, nella Sacrestia Grande nella capella si Sig.ri Gondula; O njemu je zabiljezemo ovdje i to, da je bio ubijen od hajduka kod sela Osonika; 9) Orsat Nicolina Gundulic, sahranjen 21.IV g. 1687, in sacrestia nella Capella di Gondola; 10) Pavo Nokolina Gundulic, sahranjen 14.III g. 1688 nella capella di Gondola in Sacrestia. Nacon skoro 100 godina iza ovog ukopa u onoj cakristiji one god. 1688, sacuvana nam je u drugoj i trecoj biljeska. Ta glasi, da je dana 22 februara g. 1785 preminula te ukopana sutradan Frana rogj. Bunic, supruga najposljednjega Gundulica, Siska Domenika Siskova Gundulica. Ta biljesca glasi u Il knjizi kataloga registara: 22 Fre. O Morj la Sig.ra Madama Francisca Moglie dellÈccelenza Sigismondo Góndola, ed il gior.o seg.te fu sepulta con u solemne funerale nella pro.a capella Della SS. Ma trinita nella proa.a sep.a--- 1785. U Ill onih knjiga bilsjeska glasé ovoko: Febbreio ---- 22 moej Fran(ces)ca Madama dellÈcc.mo Sigismondo Góndola, ed il gior.o seg(uen)te fu sepulta nella Capella della SS.ma trinitá nella proa.a sep.ra---1785. Je li bulo u onoj grobnici ukopano jos drugih osoba iz one grane porodice Gundulica? Sigurno je da ih je bilo, a to su sigurno bili i oni Gundulici, koje smo prije spomenuli, iz XVI Rijeka, a za koje nijesu nam sacuvani katalozi registri ukopanih ( koji su sacuvani od XVII v.) U ovaj grob Gundulica ukopana su i malena.

Marija Ghetaldi-Gondola

....Nabrzo zatim dubrovacke vladike dodu, da se prikazu; caru ih predstavi grofica Giorgi, zena Mihova; carici predstavi vladike grofica Marija Ghetaldi-Gondola, sestra Dziva Natali. Vladari su bili vrlo ljubazni s vlastelom, a kako s njima, tako i sa svakim bez razlike. ( pag 76, Dubrovacke Slike i Prilike, Josip Bersa)

Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:House_of_Gondola/Gunduli%C4%87

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 2:16 pm
Sergej
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Posts: 1893
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Quote:
Hi Sergej: i not have a pedigree file, i put the genealogical info into a Wikimedia library, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Gondola, i make all the info about the nobility of Ragusa.

My reaserch is into a trouble with the fall of tha Austrian Empire (1918), Maria Ghetaldi-Gondola not have the date and place of death, if you see the wikimedia page, exist others than can not obtain the same info.

I`m not go in person Dubrovnik, was very difficult reaserch the info!, exist in Dubrovnik 5 box, who contain personal and legal info about the Gondola-Gundulic family, since 1300 until 1921.

best regards!
if you can obtain more info will be very succesfull!

It is possible that you got stuck at 1921 since information after that date would be stored in a city hall! I read through the article on Wikipedia, there are some errors in there if I read Siebmacher.

The text in Serbo-Croatian is from 1922 and just summarizes what you wrote on the Wikipedia entry. I would rather concentrate on Siebmacher. I do not know what languages you speak besides English?

I can verify though that the
11. Ghetaldi
12. Giorgi
13. Gondola
14. Gozze
15. Gradi
were still alive in 1790.

There is also a chance that some of the older documents are in Belgrade since Ragusa had excellent trading relations with Raska, there is an old highway that leads to the old capital of Serbia.

I would also try to trace in the side lines. E.g. de Saracca got married with Ursula Ghetaldi. The same with de Zamagna.

But I would really advice you to create a PAF pedigree file, it makes it easier to work. If you want to I can create you a online system at http://www.rodoslovlje.com/rodoslov where you can put the info online and put a link from the Wikipedia page to that page. Let me know what you think about that.

Regards,
Sergej

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 3:30 pm
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Hi Sergej: is a very great idea create a PAF pedigree file, for other side i have a old testament of Sigismondo Gondola and he mentioned to Saracca and Zamagna.
is a possible than this documents exist in Belgrade, Raska is and excelent page with a lot of info, but exist any only in serbian language, i have the book Dubrovacke Slike i Prilike, by Josip Bersa, but is in Serbian language.

best regards!

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 8:04 pm
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi Sergej: i not have a pedigree file, i put the genealogical info into a Wikimedia library, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Gondola, i make all the info about the nobility of Ragusa.

My reaserch is into a trouble with the fall of tha Austrian Empire (1918), Maria Ghetaldi-Gondola not have the date and place of death, if you see the wikimedia page, exist others than can not obtain the same info.

I`m not go in person Dubrovnik, was very difficult reaserch the info!, exist in Dubrovnik 5 box, who contain personal and legal info about the Gondola-Gundulic family, since 1300 until 1921.

best regards!
if you can obtain more info will be very succesfull!

pd: i speak spanish, the errors of the Wikimedia between Siebmacher is about the first in mentioned, Johann Baptism Gondola, because this is the son of Ivan Gundulic, Franz Johann (Frano Dzivo) Gondola, because he married with countess Strozzi, in any source apear with the name Maria Victoria in other with Octavia, Strozzi, if you can help with this, will be great!

It is possible that you got stuck at 1921 since information after that date would be stored in a city hall! I read through the article on Wikipedia, there are some errors in there if I read Siebmacher.

The text in Serbo-Croatian is from 1922 and just summarizes what you wrote on the Wikipedia entry. I would rather concentrate on Siebmacher. I do not know what languages you speak besides English?

I can verify though that the
11. Ghetaldi
12. Giorgi
13. Gondola
14. Gozze
15. Gradi
were still alive in 1790.

There is also a chance that some of the older documents are in Belgrade since Ragusa had excellent trading relations with Raska, there is an old highway that leads to the old capital of Serbia.

I would also try to trace in the side lines. E.g. de Saracca got married with Ursula Ghetaldi. The same with de Zamagna.

But I would really advice you to create a PAF pedigree file, it makes it easier to work. If you want to I can create you a online system at http://www.rodoslovlje.com/rodoslov where you can put the info online and put a link from the Wikipedia page to that page. Let me know what you think about that.

 
Posted : 21/08/2007 8:10 pm
Sergej
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Juan,

I just send you an email so you can start creating a online pedigree. Let me know when you put the information in there and if you need help with it. Then it will be easier to talk about this and to verify things.

Regards,
Sergej

 
Posted : 22/08/2007 11:18 am
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Hi Sergej: i copy this link, who contain a GEDCOM genealogy file of members of the Ragusan nobility from the 12th to the 16th century and genealogy file containing descendants of one nobleman, Petrus Gondola.

http://vlado.fmf.uni-lj.si/pub/networks/data/esna/ragusa.htm

pd: i will start with my Gedcom files!

 
Posted : 22/08/2007 10:26 pm
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see the next link about the bishop Joseph Franz v.Gondola (1711-1774)

http://www.google.cl/books?id=QvFGlMYxbU8C&pg=PA85&dq=Joseph+Graf+Gondola&sig=qUKTXz9YZRQzJzVpyn8GVBcfHLE

 
Posted : 23/08/2007 12:43 am
Sergej
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Do you understand what is written there?
I will wait for your Gedcom file.

Regards,
Sergej

 
Posted : 23/08/2007 9:00 am
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ok

 
Posted : 23/08/2007 11:21 am
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Familie v.Gondola

Gondola, Grafen Familie. Ein aus Hetrurien entsprossenes, spater in Lucca, Ragusa und Tirol sesshaft gewordenes Grafengeschlecht, welches 1719 in Nieder-Oesterreich das Incolat erlangte. Graf Johann Baptist, k.k General-Feldmarschall-Lieutenant (Frano Dzivo Gondola ,c.1632-1700 Generalfeldwachtmeister, 27.7. 1682 and Feldmarschall-Leutnant?), (Kinder von Giovanni Gondola-Ivan Gundulic ) war inszweiter Ehe vermahlt mit Maria Victoria Grf. V. Strozzi(Graf Franz Gondola mit Gräfin Octavia Strozzi. 1674 im Neues Jahrbuch Autor Heraldisch-Genealogische Gesellschaft "Adler.", P. 20, P. 28 (N°422, 415, 1719)) . Aus dieser Ehe entsprossten zwei Sohne, die Grafen Franz und Sigismund. Graf Franz, gest.1717, k.k. General der Cav. Stifter des Gondolalaischen Fideicomisses in Tirol und Osterreich, binterliess aus seiner Ehe mit Maria Anna Grf. V. Sereny,(metzler Apostolische Vicare S 150 gibt als mutter eine Graffin v. Khuen an ) vur eihe einzige Tochter, Gfr. Johanna welehe sich mit ihrem Vetter, Sigismund, vermahlte, s. Unten, Graf Sigismund aber, fruher in k. Span., spater in k.k Kriegsdiensten, hatte aus seiner Ehe mit Catharine Marchese de Nalé vier Sohne, die Grafen Franz, Johann Baptist, Hieronymus und Sigismund den Jungeren. Graf Franz (II). Herr der Herrschaft Wangen in Tirol und des von dem Bruder seines vaters, Franz I., bestimmten Fideicommisses in Tirol u. Niederosterreich, wurde 1719 unter die nenen Niederosterr. Herrenstand-Geschlechter aufgenommen. Aus seiner zweiten Ehe miteiner Grafin v. Khuen stammtenzweiSohne, von welchen Anton Sigismund im Flor seines Lebens unvermahlt, Franz Joseph aber Bischof zu Tempe, Domherr u. Domeustus zu Wien, 1774 starb. Graf Johann Baptist, Herr auf Wangen, war mit Maria Franziska Grf. v. Khuen vermahlt, welcher Ehe Graf Anton, k.k Kamm. U Fidei-Comiss Inhaber zu Wangen, zu Wangen, entspross, welcher, verm mit Josepha Graf. V.Rindsmaul, 1762 ohne Nachkommeschaft starb. Graf Hieronymus, in k. Span. Kriegsdiensten, setzte ebenfalls den Stamm nicht fort, vom Grafen Sigismund dem Jungeren aber, verm. Mit Johanna Grf. v. Gondola, s. Oben, stammte nebst mehreren Kindern Graf Sigismund Domenicus, Herr zu Wangen etc., k.k Kamm., welcher 1764 das Fideicomiss antrat und sich mit Franzisca Grf. v. Bona vermahlte. Ueber die etwaige Nachkommenschaft desselben, so wie uber zwei Bruder, welche 1797 noch gelebt haben sollen, konnte Wissgrill nichts ermittein.Er starb kinderlos als der letzte Mannssprosse 1890, nachdem er seinem Neffen Franz de Ghetaldi zu seinem Erben eingesetzt mit der Bedingung, dass dieser seinen Namen und sein Wappen fortfuhre; des letzteren Sohn Sigismund Ghetaldi-Gondola (podestá von Ragusa) erlangte ddo. Wien 2.5.1818 eine Bestatignung seines altererbtan Adelstandes un ddo. Wien 6.12.1845 die Fhrnwurde
Wissgrill, III. S. 360 und 361.

 
Posted : 23/08/2007 1:09 pm
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